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Mighty Marvel Comics discussion

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Author Topic: Mighty Marvel Comics discussion  (Read 10195 times)
fishmilkshake
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« Reply #1050 on: September 01, 2017, 09:04:44 pm »

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/09/01/every-story-event-marvel-legacy-trailer/

Is it just me or does Brevoort have the most punchable face in comics?

Legacy sounds like a stop-gap-shit-show. 

Anyone remember when just one person pulled the strings at Marvel? Jim Shooter has many detractors, but when he was in charge for that decade, the comics were pretty fun.
Now, there's so many suits and levels involved, no wonder it's a fucking debacle.
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« Reply #1051 on: September 01, 2017, 09:32:02 pm »

At DC you at least know who's in charge.  Or at least the structure.  Nelson/Johns, DiDio/Lee, and that flunky Harras. 

And my assumption is that of them all, Johns has taken creative control along with DiDio as his balance.  That's why Rebirth and Metal are running side by side.
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« Reply #1052 on: October 03, 2017, 10:22:58 pm »

Disclaimer:  I am somewhat uncomfortable doing this.  What is this?  A mini review of Marvel Legacy #1.  And I'm uncomfortable because most of you know I'm not the biggest Marvel fan alive.  So with all the objectivity I can muster, here goes:

I grudgingly liked (some of) it.  That is not to say it's without it's flaws.  The opening sequence drives me nuts.  The Avengers 1,000,000 BC is pretty fucking stupid.  Mostly since the species we evolved from weren't remotely human a million years ago.  And the ancient/modern analogues were just offensive.  Not racially or anything, but to my intelligence.  Oh, and the bit about fighting a Celestial...why not call up some Eternals to help out?  But hey, that's just me.  I also remember why I hate Wolverine so much.  And it looks like Marvel is about to recycle another event.  But other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln? 

What did I like?  Marvel's Trinity in absentia.  Great character moments between Sam, Jane, and Riri.  Loki trying to be a hero.  The protracted hero fight between two unlikely antagonists of Ghost Rider and Starbrand.  And maybe getting a new Starbrand who's not quite as big of a douche as the last one.  I liked Ben and Johnny's scene.  And Dr. Strange' shrubbery. 

Doubt I'll go any further than this.  Took me five days to decide to buy it and another two to getting around to reading it.  I think this book would've benefitted greatly from a more experienced hand like Mark Waid.  If this was indeed Marvel's Rebirth, it needed something more to tie it together. 

As always, YMMV.  Thumbs Up         
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« Reply #1053 on: October 05, 2017, 09:16:02 am »

That's too bad.  Aaron is a great, great writer - but something like this is almost a no-win situation.  He has to setup a relaunch, but there's nothing centrally tying it together like Dr. Manhatten and there aren't big changes like Rebirth getting back to the roots.
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« Reply #1054 on: October 05, 2017, 11:30:58 am »

There is a theme.  But it's recycled.  The Sleeping Celestial gonna call down the Fourth Host to destroy Earth.  When's Galactus coming back after he promised not to for the 20th time?  This is not the game changer that Marvel needed.

I'll tell you what I think is needed when I get off this phone.  Like you care or something.  Wink
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« Reply #1055 on: October 05, 2017, 11:50:30 am »

I have the caring.
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« Reply #1056 on: October 05, 2017, 02:44:03 pm »

I'll tell you what I think is needed when I get off this phone.  Like you care or something.  Wink

Even though I buy read almost no current MARVEL, I'm always interested in your opinion, GARD. 






Can I borrow 50 bucks?  ( I kid, I kid )
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« Reply #1057 on: October 05, 2017, 03:50:25 pm »

Simply put, Marvel needs a "game changer".  Something that changes the way we jaded fans look at them.  The product has become rather stale.  I'm not downing Marvel and promoting DC in what I'm about to say.  This is not a "versus" suggestion or comment. 

DC is and always has been a company hammered together.  Round pegs in square holes.  Copious amounts of duct tape, baling wire, bubble gum and spit hold it together.  And that's just it's formation when Detective, National, and All American came together to form DC in the 30s/40's.  After that, Quality, Fawcett, Charlton, and Wildstorm were all brought into the DCU as well as some other temporary additions such as Red Circle and Milestone.  Lots of different characters from different viewpoints.  Plus the whole continuous tearing down and rebuilding of continuity has made DC a very interesting bowl of "stew".  To me anyway.

Marvel as we know it was formed by a small handful of writers and a core of artists.  I'm talking the building blocks of what we now know as the Marvel Universe.  Of course it's much bigger now, but almost everything being done now is these guys standing on the shoulders of Stan, Jack, Roy, Steve, JRS, etc.  DC does much the same BTW, it's just a broader, deeper foundation.  Now to my point.

Marvel needs new blood (characters).  Since most creators are now hip pocketing any new characters/concepts they may come up with to monetize later, I'm referring to the Ultraverse, Crossgen, and the Marvels. 

Ultraverse is difficult.  But Disney is a company that you can't swing a dead cat around and not hit a lawyer.  I'm sure if they wanted to, they could untangle the Ultraverse rights and not break the bank doing so.  Ultraverse creators would get a nice chunk of change and the MU would get several dozen much needed new characters.

Crossgen should be easy.  Disney already owns them.  Pretty interesting stuff.  Especially Crux and Negaton. 

Marvel spent an enormous amount of time and money acquiring the rights to Miracle/Marvel Man.  Introducing this mythology into the MU is the "Watchmen moment" Marvel is looking for.  It is the game changer.  Ultraverse/Crossgen could be done as a simple "Invasion Angle".  Wrestling fans will know of what I speak.  Marvel Man has to be crafted into the MU.  Slowly, methodically.  An event that it deserves.  And you have to walk the fine line where he can go back to his own continuity too. 

And Bendis can't go anywhere near this.             
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« Reply #1058 on: October 05, 2017, 04:41:23 pm »

And to clarify if I may:  When I say Marvel needs new characters, there aren't any qualifiers.  Black, Asian, female, gay, trans...whatever.  Marvel needs new, interesting characters unconnected to their primary mythology.  That's where the staleness comes from.  DC can do legacy all day and twice on Sundays because it's an organic outgrowth of having characters that go back nearly three generations.  Marvel's legacies have always felt forced for the most part. 
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« Reply #1059 on: October 05, 2017, 05:48:48 pm »

I'm on the outside, but I still want to contribute.

And to clarify if I may:  When I say Marvel needs new characters, there aren't any qualifiers.  Black, Asian, female, gay, trans...whatever.  Marvel needs new, interesting characters unconnected to their primary mythology.  That's where the staleness comes from.

Agree 100%.  Recently, MARVEL felt that they could just take popular characters, remove the Civilian identities, shoehorn in Minorities, and they would all be hits.  Miles SPIDEY is pretty popular, but for the most part, it just hasn't worked ( if I'm not mistaken ).

I agree that not everybody should be a male WASP, but they need a new approach.  Unfortunately, I've heard some people say that whenever they come up with new Super Heroes, nobody cares, and they end up failing.  I suppose that's the problem.
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« Reply #1060 on: October 05, 2017, 08:59:26 pm »

I think having new characters could be great too, but I'm tired of every character having to be a derivative of classic characters, yet they are "superior" to their original counterparts. Invincible Iron Man with the Riri Williams character has been interesting, but once they start making her "smarter" and better than Tony Stark I take an issue with that. Same thing with Totally Awesome Hulk (which is not awesome, just barely passable).  These characters haven't earned the greatness that is supposedly being bestowed upon them.  I think there is potential for some of them, but honestly Marvel is trying toooooooooo hard to diversify. The next big character I'm sure will be a 2 year old toddler who has the mental capacity to create an infinitely renewable energy source that allows her to build a suit of armor so that she can the  travel to the stars with and get all of the powers of the Fantastic Four. When she gets back to earth she'll be bitten by a radioactive spider and shoot webs from her diaper.

P.S.  keep the bad guys as bad guys.
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« Reply #1061 on: October 06, 2017, 09:20:11 am »

I know this is an uphill battle, but I'd prefer to see 3rd tier/forgotten characters put in the hands of major talents and see what they can do with them. Characters that have been off the grid for a while like Doc Samson, Tigra, Valkyrie, Jack of Hearts. If you put them in the hands of nobodies/newcomers-- most fans aren't going to care -- and that's almost always what happens with these smaller characters.

Frankly, I think Tigra is more viable as a film than Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel. I'm an old school Ms. Marvel fan, but I just don't see anything really unique about her that warrants a film.

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« Reply #1062 on: October 06, 2017, 10:56:08 am »

Getting a lesser-known going may be the ticket.  It worked for Guardians.  I think that's a more natural approach than merging heroes from other universes.  Like Gard said, that's DC's gig (although I'd argue they failed miserably with Wildstorm).  Marvel isn't going to re-take the top spot by imitating DC.

My perception of Marvel has been skewed by my reading habits.  Apologies for those that have read this before, but I subscribe to Marvel Unlimited and read the whole catalog, just 6 months behind.  It's really changed how I read not just in format, but also how I take in news.  I know everything is going to be spoiled for me by the news sites months before I actually read anything.  And, it's cheap.  If I was shelling out $ per issue for Secret Empire and trying to avoid spoilers until I read the books, I'd probably be less forgiving of the shenanigans around events.  DC got me back spending my money on paper copies by essentially catering to my demographic directly.  They apologized in a big way with Rebirth and focused on the core characters with their best talent.  It's the equivalent of Geoff Johns wrapping me in my favorite blanket and Dan Didio bringing me hot cocoa.  I'm warm, I'm safe, and the people around me are catering to me.  The kid next to me seems to be enjoying it as well.

Marvel is trying to bring back the core and keep the newbies around.  I'm not sure it's going to work.  If DC had launched a separate Rebirth line, but kept the New 52 still chugging along I think it would have failed.  The fans of the old and the fans of the new have to be buying the same books to keep books afloat financially.  There's just not enough readers in either group.  Jason Aaron is wrapping me in a new blanket that's the same color as the old one, but a different texture and Axel Alonso is bringing me raspberry-tinged Cocoa - then moving on to the kid next to me.
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« Reply #1063 on: October 06, 2017, 07:17:16 pm »

Getting a lesser-known going may be the ticket.  It worked for Guardians.  I think that's a more natural approach than merging heroes from other universes.  Like Gard said, that's DC's gig (although I'd argue they failed miserably with Wildstorm).  Marvel isn't going to re-take the top spot by imitating DC.

Yeah, DC has screwed the pooch with Wildstorm although Ellis is trying mightily to rectify that.  But the fact remains that Marvel owns the Ultraverse and Disney owns Crossgen.  Why let those characters sit?  I maintain that Marvel needs new blood.  Even if the characters need updating from their 90's selves.  kc has a point too although Marvel has tried to reinvent some of it's mid level characters (minus big name talent) to virtually no success in the last few years.  GotG has been run into the ground and ruined IMHO.  The movies actually uplift the comic. 

Have you gone all digital on Marvel?

Marvel is trying to bring back the core and keep the newbies around.  I'm not sure it's going to work.  If DC had launched a separate Rebirth line, but kept the New 52 still chugging along I think it would have failed.  The fans of the old and the fans of the new have to be buying the same books to keep books afloat financially.  There's just not enough readers in either group.  Jason Aaron is wrapping me in a new blanket that's the same color as the old one, but a different texture and Axel Alonso is bringing me raspberry-tinged Cocoa - then moving on to the kid next to me.


After reading the reports from this afternoon's DC panels at NYCC, I'm more convinced than ever that Marvel may be doomed.  Metal has become a party.  The enthusiasm is palpable and contagious.  And we're all invited.  Doomsday Clock could very well be the comic equivalent of Game of Thrones. 

I still believe that Marvel needs a legit "break-the-internet", OMG, WTF, Holy Shit moment.  One that I don't see forthcoming unless Marvelman get folded into the Marvel Universe and slaughters the Avengers.       
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« Reply #1064 on: October 07, 2017, 01:21:35 am »

These characters haven't earned the greatness that is supposedly being bestowed upon them. 

Yes, this.

Marvel isn't broken. There's no great "fix" needed. You just need to bring back the core characters that the long time fans have handed over their money for, and find new and interesting ways to get new readers.

For the former, you don't need some "event" to bring back Logan as Wolverine, Tony as Iron Man, Steve as Cap, Bruce as Hulk, etc. But this is Marvel, of course you need an event because it garners sales. Okay, can we do it subtly and maybe Wolverine uses the Cosmic Cube fragment to fix a few things that have changed for the worse since he was away?

For the latter, you're halfway there. Laura, Riri, Amadeus, Kamala and even Falcon Cap are all solid concepts, just give them their own space that isn't at the expense of the originals....

....and tell good fucking stories.
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